It is also possible to buy from private individuals on-line via classified ads in USENET newsgroups, other discussion groups and bulletin boards, auctions, and private Web sites.
Where actual manufacturer's model numbers are listed in the catalog or on the Web page, it is a good idea to confirm that the specifications actually do match. Inaccuracies in catalog entries are very common (like a HeNe laser listed as 5 mW that turns out to be only .5 mW, oops). Similarly, it would be disappointing to say the least if you blew a visible laser diode because the driver board actually required a regulated input when the listing claimed otherwise. :-(
Compare prices as well. There can be a wide variation in the price of the identical system or component among the various surplus houses or other suppliers. Haggling (at least with private individuals) may get you a better deal especially if you can identify lower prices elsewhere. More expensive items may be in better condition or newer, but not always - and it may not matter for your purposes. Consider using COD (Cash On Delivery) for payment if available (instead of a check, money order, or credit card) when dealing with a company for the first time or when in doubt about their integrity. For purchases from individuals, in addition to COD, a partial payment arrangement (e.g., 50% percent up front, 50% after receipt and inspection of merchandise) shouldn't scare off someone who has nothing to hide if they can verify *your* integrity. The latter shouldn't be a problem if you are a regular contributer to USENET newsgroups or frequent buyer and/or seller on eBay! :)
A commercial supplier should know how to pack and ship fragile merchandise to prevent damage. However, when ordering from a private individual or if you should need to send laser parts through the mail, or via UPS, Fed-X, Airborn, etc., packing should be done such that the box can withstand being drop-kicked from a 10 story building. Four inches of bubble-wrap or styrofoam peanuts on all sides should be considered a minimum with adequate protection between items as well. Insurance is also a worthwhile expense though successfully filing a claim could be an ordeal. Stickers marked 'Fragile' and 'Do Not Drop' may just make the package a more inviting target. :-)
Then, when you receive your merchandise, make sure you actually were sold what was expected. Confirm that it behaves as advertised. I have received HeNe laser power supplies marked with reversed polarity, for example. Honest (or otherwise) mistakes in packing and labelling do occur. And, of course, DO NOT open the inner packaging or attempt to power an item that was shipped in error as getting a refund may be much more difficult if the seller can honestly claim you damaged something.
I've only had to file an insurance claim once, with the U.S. Post Office (USPS). That was for a 15 to 20 mW HeNe laser head I had gotten along with a power supply on eBay. The bore of the laser head was fractured, most likely due to the package falling onto a concrete floor. (The power supply was not damaged.) From my perspective, the packing was not totally adequate but would have been fine for ordinary handling, even tossing it onto a pile of boxes. Thus, I would have not been terribly unhappy to have the the claim denied with an excuse of "inadequate packing". Then, I would go back to the seller and it is likely we would have come to some acceptable agreement. However, I filled out the claim form, obtained the insurance receipt and an itemized cost receipt from the seller, and included a description along with a diagram of the damage. I went into my local post office with these as well as the box and all packing material, the broken laser head partially disassembled so the damage could be easily seen, and a mockup of the power supply to show how everything was arranged. Since the claim was for only $50, they paid it on the spot. It turns out that $50 is the USPS limit for this - otherwise it would have had to go through the system, with an uncertain and no doubt long time to completion. (I did forgo reimbursement for part of the shipping cost but figured that a bird in the hand.....) Aside from just getting in under the instant payment limit in this case, one key to getting an insurance claim paid without hassle is no doubt having all the original packaging and complete documentation to present when filing the claim.
Also see the sections: Laser Sales and Service Companies and Laser and Optics Manufacturers and Suppliers for sources of mostly expensive laser products. However, some of those companies may have overstock and surplus sales as well as items like diode laser modules that are more reasonably priced.
Obviously, for a model that is still being sold, the manufacturer's literature or Web site will often provide enough info. User and service manuals may also be available as well as for older lasers that they still support. In addition, there may be many variations on a given model depending on the type of optics installed and possible tube replacement or upgrade.
Unfortunately, few manufacturers maintain detailed specifications or other information readily accessible (e.g., on-line) for older models. After all, why should they help you fix the laser that you've been happy with for the last 5 years for only $500 when they can sell you a shiny new and improved one for $20,000! :(
There are a variety of other places to look for specifications but their accuracy can vary based on the objectives of the provider (e.g., honesty, vested interests, optimism, technical knowledge).
Just keep in mind that these are items for sale so power output ratings must be taken with a sliver of optical glass (at least for lasers like ion and ruby/YAG where output power is adjustable).
Also see the section: Buyer Beware for Laser Purchases.
Here are some comments on laser power and other claims that you should be aware of before purchasing a used laser:
Note that there are some multi-mode (non-TEM00) HeNe tubes with wider bores and a different mirror curvature that produce up to perhaps twice the power output for a given tube length. However, with multiple axial modes, these are not suitable for many applications like interferometry and holography. They are also not very common compared to single-mode TEM00 HeNe tubes.
Also, the power output of non-red HeNe lasers - green (543.5 nm), yellow (593.9 nm), and orange (611.8 nm) - will be only about 1/10th to 1/4th that of an equivalent red (632.8 nm) one. Thus, a 20 inch green laser head is good for about 2 mW (compared to 8 to 15 mW for red) and a 10 inch head, perhaps only .2 mW (1 to 2 mW for red). As with normal red HeNe lasers, there is no way to boost power and the CDRH sticker rating is normally much greater than what is actually possible. However, the beam WILL look a lot brighter mW/mW compared to red due to the response curve of the eye, which can be misleading to sellers and buyers alike.
Note: Since the gain of these wavelengths is so low, they also have a shorter life and the chance of finding working surplus green or yellow HeNe lasers is much lower than for red. I would not recommend bidding on an eBay auction for one of these unless guaranteed to be working. The likelihood of the problem for an "unknown condition" green or yellow HeNe laser being just mirror alignment is small to none!
And, just because the male Alden connector of the laser head fits into the mating female socket of a randomly selected power supply doesn't mean they will work together! HeNe lasers of all sizes usually use the identical connectors! (Many people have been known to throw out perfectly good HeNe tubes and heads if they failed to start or operated erratically when in fact, power supply compatibility was the real problem!) On the other hand, don't assume compatibility just because the laser tube or head and power supply were supposed to work together - many of these same people have no idea what this means and make the assumption that because the laser worked once (if that), it would be fine forever. The life of the HeNe tube and/or power supply may be shortened and/or power output may suffer.
Large-frame HeNe lasers like the Siemens LGK-7676/L/S and functionally similar Spectra-Physics 107/907 which show up on eBay and from surplus dealers either untested or without measured output power are probably high mileage tubes which may run but will not meet new power specs. However, they are very well built, really nice to play with, and probably have a lot of life left. Just don't expect good as new performance from them. Around 50 percent of rated power is typical.
Finally, HeNe laser heads in like-new condition that show up as surplus or on eBay without end-caps (output aperture and Alden connectors) were probably manufacturing rejects pulled from the line before being completed since they didn't meet spec in any of a number of areas including: output power value, stability with warmup, mode cycling percentage, polarization ratio, or other aspects of beam quality. Thus, what you end up with may have undisclosed problems. This is also likely true of bare HeNe tubes (often without any identifying labels) - especially 'other color' (than red) types in pristine condition but where the locking collars or mirror adjusters are loose and the seller suggests that "alignment is all that is needed to make them lase and then you will have gotten a great deal". Note that it is likely that some of these have found their way to resale via less than legitimate channels - especially if the serial numbers have been removed! Even if they do work or can be made to work, items like this have trouble written all over them. And, don't believe claims that tubes were "purchased new and used very little" if they don't have any labels. A tube sold as a tube (not part of a laser head) will almost certainly be labeled with model and serial numbers at the very least, usually with a sticker on the side. Similarly, a laser head should also have a similar label. It's the law in both cases. And, even the manufacturer can't tell specs by inspection! :)
Having said all this, a used or off-spec HeNe laser may still be just fine for many purposes as long as you understand exactly what you are getting. For more information on HeNe laser sizes and power output, see the sections starting with: Internal Mirror HeNe Tubes up to 35 mW - Red and Other Colors. And some have very interesting and unusual behavior. :)
Also see the section: Expected Output Power and Used Ion Lasers.
I would recommend against even considering the purchase of high power diode lasers or laser diodes from eBay or other similar source unless they are supplied in their original sealed packaging, there is a no questions asked money back warranty that is enforceable, or you know the seller to be honest and aware of proper handling procedures for laser diodes. If you insist on bidding on one of these, compare the any specifications provided by the seller with the device's datasheet if possible. Sometimes, very professional looking charts will be included on the auction page without mentioning that they show a weak or damaged diode.
Note that there are several sellers offering what they claim to be high power laser diodes suitable for DPSS laser pumping where a wavelength in the 808 to 810 nm range is needed. However, many of the surplus high power laser diodes originate from graphics arts equipment like platesetters which almost invariably use 820 to 880 nm diodes, most likely for cost reasons. So, an unscrupulous or unknowledgeable seller may be passing these off as DPSS laser pump diodes when in fact they are pretty worthless for that application. In fact, the only hobbyist use I know for these would be as burning lasers since the beam can be focused very nicely to carve wood or plastic or an unsuspecting finger. :( :) If what you're interested in is a diode pump for a DPSS laser, make sure the seller guarantees the wavelength to be close enough to 808 nm that modest cooling or heating (+10/-15 °C from 25 °C based on 0.3 nm/°C can tune the wavelength to the optimum value for peak absorption in the lasing crystal (usually, Nd:YVO4 or Nd:YAG). Just showing a photo of one of these diodes producing green light from a DPSS laser crystal is not a sufficient test as there may be some output but it will be only a small fraction of what's possible with a diode emitting at 808 nm. Some sellers claim to have gotten significant green power from a DPSS laser crystal using diodes that look identical. My guess is that either (1) they were smoke'n sump'n or (2) the particular diode they were using was actually around 808 nm but that's no guarantee that the one in the auction will be as well.
Where an entire LPSS laser head or complete laser is offered, the only way to really know what is can do is to check the manufacturer's specs or test it. In most cases, the seller isn't able or won't do this so you're on your own.
Furthermore, as with other types of lasers, the CDRH rating is almost always much higher than anything that can be achieved and sustained in practice. For example, Coherent C315M-100 lasers have a "300 mW max" rating and Uniphase uGreen 4601-10, -20, and -50 lasers have a "125 mW" max rating. Realistic maximum output power is not likely to exceed 1/3 to 1/2 of either of these and may be much less in the case of the lower power uGreen lasers.
For more info, also see the section: About Laser Power Ratings.
Attempt to determine what is actually possible - don't take the seller's word for it. You can't confirm actual output over the Internet or from a catalog but at least you will know that you aren't likely to get 5 mW from a HeNe laser head only 10 inches long, 300 mW from a surplus ALC-60X argon ion laser without a meltdown, or 125 mW from *any* Uniphase uGreen laser!
Many people also claim that the lasers they are selling have low hours or were only used briefly a few times ("only driven by a little old lady to church on Sundays."). In most cases they actually don't have a clue and such claims carry about as much weight as the campaign promises of politicians. :) Unless the laser was originally purchased new, they (or you) may have no real way of determining how much it was used. For HeNe lasers, this may not matter that much since if the laser works when you get it, it will probably continue to work for as many hours as you are likely to care. But for ion lasers, you could be getting a low pressure tube that is on its way out. While there is usually an elapsed time meter present on ion lasers it isn't a reliable indication of past use as the tube may have been swapped or a mechanical meter may have recycled back to zero (more than once!) and like automobile odometers, can be reset. With other types of lasers, it may be even more difficult to determine the amount of use. High power diode lasers and diode pumped solid state lasers may have a life expentancy of only a few thousand hours to begin with and the one being offered may be near the end of useful life. And, if abused at any time, all bets are off and it may not even make a good boat anchor!
Finally, here are some other common statements paraphrased from various actual eBay offerings:
Whether buying from a surplus outfit or a private individual, don't expect to get a new laser for bargain basement prices. The well known laser surplus places may buy up reject inventory from major laser companies like Melles Griot - laser heads and tubes that didn't meet spec even when new. Unless the item is clearly stated to be new and meets new specs, this can probably be assumed. If the model number is given, sometimes it's possible to tell a reject. For example, with Melles Griot lasers, a '-Q' suffix (e.g., 05-LYR-171-Q) means that the yellow HeNe laser head (in this case) didn't meet specs but still lases somewhat - its performance wasn't so terrible that it went to the crusher. (I have one that varies between 1.5 and 2.5 mW of yellow on a several minute cycle due to 3.391 um IR mode competition. It's still a very nice laser but not useful for many applications.) However, even if you know what to look for, the Q designation may not make it to sticker attached to the laser. With private sales there are several more levels of unknowns unless the laser was purchased new (unlikely!), the seller worked for a company that purchased it new before the project was cancelled, or the pedigree is completely known. :)
And the most amusing listings I've seen on eBay lately go something like: "Argon-Ion Laser Tube Air-Cooled Add Gas and Go". Right, like all that is needed is a bottle of argon gas from your friendly welding supplier. Not! Even if these are usable at all (they could very well be rejects), just a bit more is needed. See the chapters on argon/krypton ion lasers before you end up with an expensive paperweight.
The only real way to protect yourself from deceptive or exaggerated advertising claims is a combination of getting the detailed specifications, buying from a reputable supplier, and obtaining a purchase arrangement that includes a binding money back guarantee in writing or some other way of cancelling a deal for merchandise that turns out not to be or do what was claimed!
Of course, once you receive your laser, the only way to be truly sure of the output power is with a laser power meter or by comparison with another laser of known performance.
Remember: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. You aren't likely to be the only one to have 'discovered' a bargain - if no one else has bid it up at eBay there is probably a very good reason!
Also see the section: Equivalent Brightness Ratings and Laser Pointer Visibility since this is another area where the real and the imaginary are often jumbled together!
Having said all that, I did a very scientific test with one of my dead Spectra-Physics 084-1 barcode scanner HeNe laser tubes from which I had already cannibalized the mirrors. This is about 10 inches long with a spider supporting the bore (the most fragile part in an HeNe tube subjected to mechanical shock) at about the halfway point. I used about 2 to 3 inches of bubble wrap all around and stuffed it into a worn cardboard box about 5" x 6" x 13" 'sealed' with an elastic band. I then abused this package to every way possible short of using a nuclear bomb (which were temporarily out of stock): Tossing it across the room, dropping on various sides and corners with and without spin from 7 feet onto a concrete floor, kicking it through the uprights, sitting on it, etc. The mirrorless tube survived just fine - the bore was well supported. What does this mean? Probably not much except for this particular model HeNe tube and it is still possible that the bore shifted slightly within the spider. There is no way to know that for sure without testing on a live tube (but it can also generally be corrected). However, in all likelihood, the typical HeNe tube would work just fine if packed in this manner (or better) even after all the abuse OOPS could dish out. :) Of course, an entire external mirror laser would likely be a much different story, especially one with a long plasma tube. And even if the glass parts survive, circuit boards and structural components can fracture from relatively low G forces if not well supported.
Of course, the general rule is: If you ship a dead laser wrapped only in a single layer of brown paper, it will arrive in perfect condition. But, if you ship a functional laser in 6 inches of foam inside a box inside 12 inches of bubble wrap inside another box inside a crate, it will arrive in a thousand pieces. :)
Note that no matter how well packed a laser is, shipping companies may give you a hard time about insurance claims and point to some disclaimer in their contract printed in 2 point type that disallows any coverage for lasers and other scientific apparatus. Some don't even consider the manufacturer's original packaging to be adequate even for computer monitors, let alone lasers. Further note that the seller may have simply sent you a broken laser. :(
If you try to file a claim, it is possible for the carrier to insist that any amount of packing material was inadequate.
Here are some somewhat humorous but all too true guidelines. This was originally posted to the USENET newsgroup alt.lasers for a specific shipping company, whose name I have deleted.
(Based on a posting from: NiteliteProducts.com (dglassburn@mindspring.com).)
Many years of experience has shown that insurance claims through shipping companies are next to impossible to recover. Their reasons are as follows and they will deny claims in the following order:
(From: Steve Roberts (osteven@akrobiz.com).)
I carefully build crates around my lasers, and insulate the lasers from shock with spray in foam that self hardens. Its a wonder how two of my crates have been reduced to kindling lately. One arrived sans crate! A third CO2 tube marked for special fragile handling by UPS (often pronounced OOOPS) didn't make it, it's been reduced to scrap glass. Same for an incredibly well packed 50 mW HeNe laser last year. I specified and paid for FedEx, but the seller used OOOOPPS to pocket the difference and ended up paying for my dead laser as a reward.
As for the broken CO2 tube, I'm driving 250 miles each way to replace it for the customer to keep my sanity, and my truck has a good suspension. According to a local driver, all OOOOOPPPSS packages drop 6 feet into a rotary sorting bin. I've had a few customers spec OOOOOPPPPSSS lately because FedEx was too expensive. Never again!
I've had good luck with FedEx, only one package ever got smashed. Delta Air Freight also has done a decent job for me.
For small air-cooled lasers I've used the U.S. Postal Service, sent 'registered', so it's hand carried and locked up each night in a safe. I Had remarkably good results with the snail mail folks - slow, but it gets there in one piece. A little pricey, but competitive.
Some suggestions:
(From: Bob.)
I recently had a problem with UPS breaking something on me, and although they paid the insurance claim, I looked to ways to better package fragile items. I have come up with the following: Wrap the breakable in a few layers of small bubble bubble wrap. This provides a layer of cushioning for the object. Then use self expanding polyurathane foam just like the stuff used in foam-in-place machines, but this stuff is the 2 pounds/cubic foot foam used in building boats. Two gallons of the stuff runs about $40 and is enough to fill a 55 gallon drum about 2/3rds full. The cool thing about this stuff is that if you use it to ship your items, they truly become indestructable. Use cheap industrial type trash bags to keep the foam from getting on the cardboard box and what you are shipping. Make a 'seat' of foam to lay the breakable in, then fill in the box with another trash bag and then foam fill, so that the box is totally full of foam. Make sure you use at least 4 to 6 inches of foam on all sides. So long as you start out with a cardboard box of decent integrity, you now have an in-destructable shipping box. I recently shipped a large X-ray tube in a double corrugated cardboard box that was 18 x 18 x 18 inches. At first the UPS manager didn't want to accept the shipment saying it wasn't properly packed for a fragile item. I then knocked the box off of the counter it sat on, stood on it, and hopped up and down a few times. Needless to say a proper application of marine foam is super strong!!! It still has some give to it, so if a box was dropped on a corner it would dent a small bit (you want some degree of deformation, otherwise you don't have any shock absorption effect going on!), but it makes your box virtually drop and or crush proof. I use the stuff to ship ANYTHING thats fragile now.
(From: Laserlover (rpoulin@rohcg.on.ca).)
I use MSAS Cargo International and add "All Perils" Insurance coverage to cover my butt and packing has to be up to their standards. All the other carriers like Fed-Ex, DHL, Purolator and the infamous UPS (OOOPSsss) will only pay for loss (mechanical damage) - and forget about anything made of glass or ceramic. MSAS Cargo International won't try to screw you as long as you can prove value of goods with quote from the original company or second source in the industry. Also take pictures before and after packing to prove integrity of goods being shipped.
The following definitely belongs in the humor department though it would be effective.
(From: Rob (rob@lasers.org).)
Ship all lasers in coffins or caskets!
I can see it now. When picking up the package from the airport, opening it up for inspection just to see the looks in their face as you open it on their dock. Shippers may feel sorry for you, and airlines may give you a free ticket to fly along with it, or at least priority seating.
Didn't they do this during Prohibition? Well, at least in the Jack Lemon movie "Some Like It Hot". :) --- Sam.
(The following approach was inspired by a laser packed and shipped to me by George Sohnle. I have added to it slightly.)
Use a heavy cardboard shipping box with minimum dimensions of 14x15x50 inches. This is still within the maximum dimensions (girth plus length, or 108 inches in this case) of most carriers, for Ground shipping at least.
For the laser I received, the box and most of the packing is in a condition that can be reused. So, if and when I ship this laser, I'll probably factor a deposit (like $50) into the shipping cost, so the buyer can send it back to me.
At the very least, you will need to provide an invoice to the shipper (e.g., USPS, UPS) listing the item(s) to be shipped and the declared value. I do avoid using the word "laser" so as not to risk an overzealous or just greedy inspector from attempting to dig out an overdriven laser pointer. So far, I've shipped several small HeNe lasers overseas without incident. I just put "barcode scanner tube" (for the SP-084) and "particle scanner tube" (for the one-Brewster Climet 9048) with a declared value of $0.00 on the invoice and on the little green Postal form (for total weight under 4 pounds), marked them as a "gift". These weigh next to nothing so they don't attract the attention of overworked customs inspectors and there's nothing illegal about shipping these lasers to most foreign countries anyhow. Putting some small value other than $0 may attract even less attention though. For example, for the UK in particular:
(From: Mike Harrison (mike@whitewing.co.uk).)
"Anything which has a declared value below UKP18 (about US$25) as merchandise, or UKP36 ($50) as a gift will not be charged import duty, so putting these values will not cause a problem, and might look more credible. Above this there is duty (typically 17.5% VAT) on the goods value PLUS the postage charge, then another UKP3.75 'handling charge', and the package can be delayed by 1 to 2 weeks."
(Portions from Steve Roberts (osteven@akrobiz.com).)
On a simple unstabilized cheap HeNe laser there are no export controls as far as I know. I have never heard of any regulations on anything that did not have strategic importance, especially if you're only shipping one. Were it a dozen then I would be concerned. Several U.S. HeNe laser manufacturers have sold entire state of the art HeNe production lines to China. Don't loose any sleep over it.
Besides, it's importing things where customs is concerned with lasers. And unless it deals with drugs, murder, or white collar crime, the U.S. is never going to extradite you. :-)
However, for high power diodes lasers or parts of lasers, green YAGs, lasers over a few watts, lasers that can be used as weapons, lasers that stabilize themselves, lasers that can blind pilots, LIDAR, something like research picosecond or Terawatt lasers, and lasers that can be used for semiconductor or uranium processing, one has to be careful. These need approval from the State Department. In addition, shipping to laser or other high tech equipment or parts to certain specific countries will raise red flags with the Government so you will have to do your homework to avoid a serious hassle or worse.
(From: John_LeB (jleb_888@hotmail.com).)
All proscribed technology is covered under the Bureau of Export Administration. The Export Administration Database provides links to the files listing various technologies.
There is a PDF file which you can find that will list proscribed technology. There are links on the web site to regional and national phone numbers where reps will talk with you. You want category 6 - Sensors and Lasers.
I went through all of this to get my crypto software licensed for export and got an exemption on it. So it is relatively easy to navigate once you get to the page and find the PDF files with the info.
To export out of the USA, you would just need either an export license or an exemption. Then in the packaging you would need to put the export license number on the packing list, if I'm not mistaken.
The listings below are mostly in alphabetical order, domestic (US) followed by foreign. Their position or even their existence on these lists does not imply anything about my impression of their quality, reliability, or integrity. However, there may be additional specific comments included in the description.
They still offer nice thick free catalogs which are a must-have. All ordering is via the Web, telephone, or snail mail.
Offerings include new, used, or surplus lasers and laser components. Quality and prices may vary quite widely - check them out before ordering!
This site is one of the best kept secrets of the Web. It is definitely worth checking out since there is so much there!
Check out their Blue Light Argon Lasers for low cost Cyonics/Uniphase systems and laser heads. They may still have a limited quantity of very inexpensive ($50) argon ion laser heads that could be weak, in need of mirror alignment, or near end-of-life but are still good for things like ion laser power supply testing. Some may be repairable. Send email to info@mi-lasers.com.
One person who bought a red laser rated at 5 mW said that what they received was an apparently new in box, bare HeNe laser tube made by "The Shanghai Institute of Laser Technology" (S.I.L), whoever they are. Though marked 8.5 mW, it probably didn't output more than 5 mW. He recommends against buying Bull's supposedly compatible power supply as it may fry if used with tubes larger than about 2 mW (as he found out after 10 minutes). (However, I didn't see any HeNe laser power supplies on their lasers page.)
They also have a separate optics catalog (Stock number 24799) which you can also request via email (but they may want to charge you a whole $1 for it if you don't order something at the same time. Hint: Commenting that "Sean is a cool guy" will almost assure a free catalog!). This looks like a very nice source listing hundreds of inexpensive (mostly glass) lenses, mirrors, and other optical items.
This company is of the 'I thought I died and went to heaven' variety (whether you believe in that stuff or not) if you are need specialized high voltage rectifiers for your HeNe, CO2, or other laser or general high voltage power supply projects. They have an on-line catalog with complete specifications and offer to send a print catalog as well as free samples. I don't know to what extent this includes free samples to hobbyist types who may not be ordering $1,000,000 worth of merchandise. They say: "qualified OEMs only" which suggests not but it may still be worth a try if you only need a little diode or two, or will then need to buy 100 more. You can never tell when a company will consider the possibility of a referral or future loyal customer to be worth a modest initial investment! However, please don't abuse the privilege if they are accommodating.
The following companies carry a wide selection of semiconductors (including many Japanese types) and in addition have replacement parts for microwave ovens (and other consumer electronic equipment) which may be useful for some laser power supply designs:
(From: Kim Clay (bkc@maco.net).)
I live in West Palm Beach, Florida & there aren't any surplus or discount electronics places close but I have found some nice sources on the web. Like
(To get an idea of what Kim has been putting together, see the section: Kim's Mid-Size HeNe Laser Power Supply (KC-HL1). --- sam)
This place is definitely worth an 'at least check out their Web site'. Much weird stuff including specialized parts (as well as plans and complete kits) needed for the laser and other projects in the two Iannini books [2] and [3] (though cheaper alternatives using readily available components may be available). Laser related products include HeNe, diode, and DPSS (green) lasers; laser pointers, mini-light shows, laser listeners and communicators; CO2 and YAG lasers; and some parts like power supplies, rods, and flashlamps. Many are available as plans, kits, or completely assembled and tested systems.
Most of the products they offer in areas like lasers and high voltage seem reasonable (though claims may sometimes be shall we say, a bit optimistic), if you are interested in something in one of their more way-out departments like anti-gravity, realize that the laws of physics haven't been repealed on their site and you shouldn't be disappointed when the item that arrives isn't a fully operational "Back to the Future" hoverboard. :)
Note: Plans and Kits has gone through some twists and turns over the laser year or so including legal proceedings likely due to questionable dealings or something worse. I do not have any details. Much of what they sell is of limited value at best and should probably be avoided like a laser beam to the eye. This place has gotten multiple thumbs-down in its former life as Unlimited Underground Electronics (UUE) for exaggerated, way out, conflicting, unrealistic claims (I'm being generous), and shoddy merchandise - everything else is unknown. However, in all fairness, there have been satisfied and repeat customers as well, perhaps those who are knowledgeable about what they are buying and can inspect (and possibly select) the merchandise in person. This site is amusing to visit but anyone who knows more about technology than a ripe carrot will realize that much of the blurb on their site has to be bogus.
There is also a chatroom and bulletin board/discussion group on the site which might provide some additional amusement (for a few milliseconds, anyhow) especially as some technically knowledgeable people attempt to clarify, correct, or dispute some of the claims. If you think about buying anything from them, realize that what arrives may bear little resemblance in appearance, function, or performance to what is described on their Web site. Terms like "Ready to go" and "Perfectly matched" may have different meanings that what you might assume. :)
PKU also offers a set of plans for using a HeNe laser tube to build a high power mercury vapor ion laser. I assume this is supposed to be similar to the one described in the chapter: Home-Built Helium-Mercury (HeHg) and Other He-Metal-Vapor Lasers and represents a tantalizing shortcut if it can be made to work. See the section: Using a HeNe Laser Tube in a Home-Built HeHg Laser? where I speculate on how such a conversion might be done.
This may also mean high prices for many items (at least compared to what you might have expected) so you should be sitting down when you are browsing the catalogs or Web sites of these suppliers. However, there are exceptions.
Lasers and optics as well as many bargain priced new and surplus scientific items. The new research quality items are expensive but there are many reasonably prices parts, kits, and just plain old fascinating stuff.
Their catalog is a must even if you never intend to purchase anything. I remember fascinating trips to their retail store stocked with bin-upon-bin of interesting and unusual (and sometimes unidentifiable!) optical and electronic items. I do not know what it is like these days.
High quality new and used optical equipment and components. Check this company out if you are really serious about optical experiments (or need to equip a medium size optics research lab).
Other possibilities: Companies clearing their 'dead storage' or excess inventory, or going out of business, and auctions and liquidation sales.
You can often find small lasers and laser parts at high tech flea markets and hamfests. Sometimes intact research lasers will show up there but often they are so old that the tube is gassy and usless (unless you are into regassing).
CAUTION: What you may end up with is/are one or more BIG lasers in unknown condition. These are extremely dangerous on all fronts - especially electrically and should they work, from the high power beam! You MUST do this in a responsible manner both for your own and others' safety as well as to not abuse the fabulous opportunity that a successful outcome can provide.
Old lasers may be available from biomedical sources like hospitals and clinics. These places buy the latest, work them to death or until something better comes along, then puts them in storage and eventually sells or gives them away for scrap. If you do find an offer of one or more of these, you will need transportation (e.g., a truck or large minivan - they won't fit in the back of a Honda Civic!) and some buddies to do the heavy lifting.
WARNING: Where the laser came from a hospital or clinic, you must assume that the business end at least (the articulated beam guide) has probably been in all sorts of places you wouldn't want to go and may have collected all sorts of stuff you wouldn't normally eat or use for bathing! Yes, they were supposed to have been sterilized but given that the laser may have been put into storage because it failed, such procedures may not have been performed. You MUST clean the entire thing except for the actual interior of the laser head with a strong disinfectant as noted below. (Perhaps you can pick up a couple gallons of hospital-grade disinfectant at the same time - one swipe of alcohol may not be enough!) Take care - there is going to be sharp sheet metal and other hazards - open wounds and biomedical waste are not a happy combination!
The most likely type of lasers available from biomedical sources will be old but could very likely be serviceable or repairable. Most common types are CO2, but you may end up with a high power YAG or Ar/Kr ion type. For the latter, it is quite likely you won't have the power feed required to use them without serious effort and expense as high current 230 VAC three-phase is often what is used. The 'smaller' CO2 units will run on standard 115 VAC, 15 or 20 A.
Thus, think several times before actually taking these recommendations seriously - you could end up with a major headache or a major bonanza depending on your negotiating skills, technological abilities, and LUCK!
The following approach has worked for me quite a few times. Mostly you get dead units but to quote Clara Peller: "Partz is partz".
Call your local hospitals. Tell them you're looking for old lasers for parts and make sure they understand you're going to demedicalize them, Ask for Biomedical or Clinical Engineering - get past the secretary and and talk to a tech or engineer. Avoid talking to accounting or materials management if you can, they want money. Make sure you tell them your end use is a home made engraver. If they are reluctant to let you have it, offer to smash the delivery arm in front of them with a sledge. These people are used to getting such calls, mostly from companies that recycle medical gear.
Don't be shocked if you hear: "Be here in 15 minutes with a truck and some people to help you load it". Ask for units by Coherent or Sharplan. You WILL need the pickup truck or a decent sized minivan. Take a complete set of allen wrenches including the larger sized ones and tools/socket set to partially dismantle it. Expect to be told the unit will be free or low cost - you're helping them dispose of a 200 to 500 pound monster. Use gloves when you take it apart as most CO2s are used for gynecology. When you get it home, scrub it down with alcohol except for the tube assembly. Take plastic sheets, tarps, rope and trash bags.
If they don't have one, still ask for their address to send them a letter or business card so they can reach you in the future. If they ask you to take a skid or two of other scrap do so. Also ask if they know of other biomed guys with units laying around.
(From: Bob.)
Hospitals would be the first and best place to look. Although nice letters may be the formal polite way of locating equipment, all the people I know who have had any luck getting any lasers from any hospital did so by wearing out their telephone. It seems as though the fellow responsible for getting rid of the hospital's equipment is always a busy harried individual who is willing to let an average Joe get a laser because he offers to make it as painless for the hospital person as possible. In other words, he doesn't have to make any telephone calls, you just show up with a truck and the manpower to load something he considers garbage. Also keep in mind that you may talk to 10 people at the same institution before you actually talk to the fellow responsible for their surplus equipment. It's much easier to get passed down the chain if someone you call can simply tell you over the phone "you need to talk to Harry at ext. 234" than if you send a letter that places the responsibility onto someone else to actually see to it that your letter gets to the right hands, possibly several someone elses. Other sources of lasers might include local businesses (i.e., read the Sunday want-ads for advertisements of auctions, especially if you have any aerospace or other high tech industry in town. You may also want to try large print shops, occasionally universities will excess equipment, and naturally there is always the Net - eBay and other places are gold mines for used equipment but you need to spend the hours in front of the computer screen to find them and you better know the value of what you bid on so you don't get the short end of a bad deal.
(From: Robin S. (lasernerd@hotmail.com).)
I work in the machine shop at a cancer research hospital. There's a huge 4.5 W argon/2.5 W dye laser in the back they didn't even know WAS a laser. You may want to find the machine shop/work shop if you go hunting. Personally, I'd go in person. Some people may be inclined to help you, and some may be too lazy (the phone makes it very easy to be lazy). Be VERY nice, and food ALWAYS helps! Bring a 6 pack of doughnuts or something. You may not get anything, but they'll be willing to talk to you.
However, you will probably not get the power supply since the they are usually not replaced when the laser heads die. Therefore, before pursuing this, realize that a power supply will have to be bought ($300 to $1,000 or more) or built. The latter is a non-trivial undertaking. See the chapters starting with: Argon and Krypton Ion Lasers.
(From: Flavio Spedalieri (fspedalieri@nightlase.com.au).)
I have managed to get two air-cooled argon lasers free of charge. Argon laser are used in industrial high-speed printing machines. If you contact your local companies, you may get lucky.
Some companies that deal with these types of printers are Xerox, Dainippon Screens, and Ricoh.
My lasers came from Dainippon Screens. The lasers worked well. One of the lasers is multi-lined. The company was throwing them out, but as I called in earlier, and left my name, they actually thought to call me back.
If you speak with the technical repairs department, and mention that you are requiring a laser to teach a bunch of students, then you could be lucky.
Please be aware that in these printers, the lasers are usually tuned to 488 nm (bright blue). Some laser heads may have a line tuning prism on the back and these are tunable to any of the 8 or so argon ion wavelengths.
The following alternatives are most often offers from private individuals (though not always - buyer beware) and are in addition to the zillions of companies that have Web sites. There are varying amounts of risk in not dealing with a well known reputable company. Prices can vary from dirt cheap to way out of line. So you MUST know the value of what is being offered. Unlike companies which compete with each other, some of these people may start with a very high price and hope there is a least one sucker out there!
In addition to honesty and ethics concerns, once you settle on a price, make sure the seller knows how to pack your (often fragile) equipment properly. It is amazing how much abuse can be inflicted by package shipping companies like UPS and the U.S. Postal Service. If it costs you a couple of dollars extra for a larger box and more bubble wrap or styrofoam peanuts - and shipping insurance - it may be well worth it!
Offers of inexpensive lasers, laser components, and other related items may also appear from time-to-time on various other discussion groups. See the sections: Laser (Email) Listservers and Laser Discussion Groups and Technical Forums. One that sees a fair amount of this type of traffic is:
It allows both private and commercial postings for buy, sell, trade, wanted, employment opportunities, announcements, etc. This is where you might find your next BIG laser!
Here are some specific laser related searches to get you started. These are designed to return serious laser related items without being inundated with laser pointers, laser printers, laserdiscs, laser engravings, and countless other common things with the word laser in their description:
Note: Since the eBay search engine appears to distinguish between singular and plural, if you don't include both (as I've done above with laser and lasers), you might miss that opportunity of a lifetime to buy 1,326 argon lasers. :) Also, for some of these, it may be useful to cut and paste the search string directly into the eBay Smart Search Page to modify or add options or exclusions which can cut down on the amount of unwanted garbage returned by these searches.
And, for the home-built laser enthusiast:
You can of course customize your own search strings. For example, if you are interested in pulsed lasers, you may want to enter: "flashlamp,flash lamp,flashlamps,flash lamps,arclamp,arclamps,arc lamp,arc lamps" in the eBay search box which will gather just about anything in the lamp department. :) One can spend a semi-infinite amount of time searching the eBay site.
Note that the current eBay search facility places an annoying gyrating banner Ad at the top of the results page. The previous one didn't do this and was thus faster loading. Too bad about greed. However, it appears as though disabling Javascript in your Web browser gets rid of the Ads and even speeds up loading, but this screws up some listings where Javascript is used by the seller, as well as the Feedback system for some auctions.
However, make sure you know the true market value of the merchandise and limit your maximum bid to what you consider it to be worth TO YOU! Avoid getting carried away in the excitement of last minute bidding - there will be other opportunities. Also, where the seller is actually a surplus dealer or other commercial enterprise, check out their Web site or catalog - the same item(s) may be listed there for a fixed price which may be much lower than where the bidding ends up. I've seen eBay auctions where the identical item went for more than twice the catalog price! In addition, depending on the day of the month, phase of the moon, or a particular tea leaf reading, there may be a variation in final bid price for similar items by a factor of 5 times or more - and the lower priced one(s) might even be in better condition or newer! As an example, in one case, I picked up something for $16.50 while the next week, an older and less desirable version of the same model went for $117.00! So, don't go overboard bidding up an item thinking another one won't show up. It will - for lasers and scientific stuff at least - maybe not an original Rembrandt. :)
Some more considerations:
There is no hard cutoff as to what to consider an acceptable feedback rating. If I see something of around 99.5 percent positive or above, I consider the seller reliable. But pay attention to the balance between feedback as a seller (what is probably important to you) and feedback as a buyer. In addition, look at the feedback as a function of time. If recent feedback - say in the last year - is entirely satisfactory, then transgressions in the past can be given less weight. And, of course, also make the evaluation based on the item in question. If a hundred other sellers have something similar, then there's no need to take a risk on a seller with a poor feedback rating. But the item is one of a kind, then it may be worth the risk. Just take all precautions possible to protect yourself should the transaction turn sour.
Unfortunately, the entire feedback system stinks and is much less useful than no doubt its original intent. Some certifiably shady sellers have high feedback ratings even though much of what they sell is misrepresented or just plain junk. Unfortunately, the feedback game for sellers seems to be to avoid receiving anything but positive feedback at all costs. It's really irrelevant what's actually taken place as long as the feedback is positive. If you as a buyer issue negative feedback, it is nearly 100 percent certain that you will get negative feedback in return no matter what the facts. Sellers learned a long time ago not to issue feedback until after they received it from the buyer. So, try to resolve problems through the eBay system before going negative! However, you've already gotten some, it should be possible to respond to it so at least your side of the story will be there for all to read (subject to the 80 character limit!).
In addition to the Positive/Neutral/Negative rating, the feedback system also now includes number ratings on five areas: listing accuracy, seller communications, speed of shipping, and cost of shipping. However, entering these is optional and the results will supposedly not be directly associated with your eBay ID. (Of course, if the seller doesn't have that many auctions, this can't be avoided.)
If you are a non-smoker and the odor of tobacco smoke residue bothers you, ask if this might be an issue with the item. Such problems are probably more likely with consumer electronics than lasers since one isn't *supposed* to be smoking in an optics/laser lab, but it won't hurt to ask. And, any tell-tail odor of tobacco smoke may mean that internal optics are contaminated aside from the thing being down right stiky. :)
Here are some other things to watch out for:
I understand when it costs $100 or more to ship a large frame laser but when there is a flat $25 fee for shipping, handling, and insurance for something like a small hand-held power meter, I consider that IPM. Such a device just needs a decent size box with ample bubble wrap and peanuts.
I've done experiments packing fragile HeNe laser tubes with 2 inches of packing and then making my best attempts to wreck them including across room tosses and drop kicking through the uprights. Couldn't do it. Now I'm not defending flimsy packing - overpackings is always better than underpacking. When I ship something like a HeNe laser or a power meter, it will be in a box with at least 4 to 6 inches of packing all around. Having done more buying than selling, it doesn't cost me anything because I save all packing materials. So, I've yet to add any sort of handling charge except for PayPal costs. I particularly love auctions where the seller talks about the expense of packing and then sends the thing in a box that's obviously travelled across the continent a dozen times with 1/4 inch wads of previously read newspaper for padding. :)
IMO, one is not supposed to be treating shipping, handling, and insurance as a profit making operation, that is for the bid price on the item. I much prefer auctions where the buyer pays the actual shipping cost that can be checked at the USPS, UPS, or FedEx Web sites. And I understand the justification for a reasonable handling/packing fee. But some auctions have taken this to ridiculous extremes and the sellers are obviously profiting from the extra charges.
Sometimes, the auction listing will quote a ridiculously high shipping cost that may be 3 times or more what the carrier shown would charge for the cheapest (Ground) service via their Web site. It won't hurt to contact the seller and question the shipping charges. They may quote you a price that's low enough to make bidding worthwhile. The eBay shipping isn't infallible.
Note that apparently, eBay has no problem with sellers charging flat handling fees but will cancel auctions that include handling fees based on a percentage of the final bid price.
Also note that while charges for overseas shipping will be high - perhaps much higher than you might expect or might like - there are also limits to what's reasonable there as well. Check with various carriers (e.g., UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL) to get an idea of what should be expected.
I would suggest avoiding those sellers that practice shipping, handling, and packing charge inflation unless the item is so unique that a similar one won't likely show up again from someone else without the attached strings. If you really can't live without bidding on an item which includes significant handling charges, just treat them as part of the bid price when determining your maximum bid.
There is no guaranteed way to prevent sniping other than by using an unrealistically high maximum bid or by doing it yourself. I actually think the rules should be changed so auctions end when there hasn't been a bid for some specified amount of time (say 1 minute) after the last accepted bid, or the official ending time, whichever is later - basically more like "real" auctions. This would be somewhat better for the seller, only slightly more traumatic for the bidders, and would totally eliminate sniping as an effective winning strategy. Some other on-line auctions like Labx apparently work something like this.
And, you can now snipe (or be sniped) automatically through the use of Web sites that will do the bidding automatically at the last nanosecond. Two of these are Auction Sniper and Powersnipe.com. There are many more. But using one of these is no guarantee even if the specified bid price would have been high enough to win. You could still lose an auction if the snipe time is specified to be too close to the end of the auction and the server is busy or Internet traffic is high. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this and other similar sniping methods eventually force auction sites to change their end-of-auction rules as suggested above. W
